Category Archives: Autism

Theories or What Does the Least Damage?

“Of all the therapies and various interventions we tried before you were able to write to us, did any help you?” I asked Emma the other day.

“No,” she wrote and then looked me in the eye and said out loud, as if I might not have understood her, “No.”

I have written about what we would have done differently had we known all that we now know ‘here‘ but still, I have to admit, I was surprised.

“But what about OT?” I asked.

“It is helpful to move,” Emma wrote.

“But did it help?” I asked.

“It’s helpful to move,” she wrote again.

And then I realized.  I was doing that thing that people so often do.  I was asking her a question, she was answering and then, because I couldn’t fully take in her answer or because I was hoping for a different answer, I was asking again.  If this were an interrogation it would be called, “leading the witness.”  Asking questions to elicit a particular response.

“Really?” I said, without thinking.  This time, Emma didn’t even bother to answer, she just looked at the timer and observed out loud, “Six more minutes and study room is allll   doooooone!”

I know for parents new to autism, these words may strike terror.  I remember early on being told about a parent who chose not to do any of the recommended therapies and being horrified.  Wasn’t doing something, even if it wasn’t helpful, better than nothing?  And then I met Henry and Kamila Markram.  They are the two neuroscientists who came up with the Intense World Theory of Autism.  It was Henry who suggested that if you could create a stress free environment for your young child, if you could shield them from surprise, create a calm, safe environment, you would do more for them than any therapy currently available.

Now for those reading this who are thinking I am saying this amounts to doing nothing, I’m not.  But there are those, like Uta Firth and Anna Remington, who insist the Markram’s recommendation, to lessen or adjust the stimuli in autistic children’s environment, is comparable to Romanian orphanages’ and go on to say, “insufficient stimulation and impoverished neuronal input in early development are damaging to children’s social, cognitive and emotional functioning3.” Except this shows a serious  misunderstanding of what the Markram’s are suggesting.  Neglect, mistreatment and being chained to a bed are not what I would call providing a safe, loving, environment free of surprises and lessening of outside stimuli.  

All children crave stimulus, but with the hyper/hypo-sensory issues that confront most if not all autistic children, Dr. Henry Markram suggests sheltering children in a comforting environment that minimizes surprises, sudden unexpected changes of plans, entering new, unfamiliar environments without any preparation, sensory assaults from loud sounds, bright lights, etc. He especially suggests avoiding confrontational behavioral therapies that demand eye contact, verbal responses, compliance and restricting movement.  What makes sense to me?  Following the child’s lead in seeking out craved stimuli. This is an aspect of Floortime that I think is a good approach.

As for other suggestions on “the right way to do it” I’d love to hear more ideas from our autistic readers. What do you think would be truly helpful?

Ideally we would have more scientific studies that show which of these various ideas are correct and that parents should do x, y and z while knowing that they were doing the right thing, the best thing, for their child, but we aren’t there yet.  So until we do know, without a doubt, one way or the other I am going to continue to look to Autistic people and my daughter to guide me.

Riding on the carousel - 2010

Riding on the carousel – 2010

 

 

Differences

“I want to write about being an Autistic girl.  Sometimes difference isn’t easy.  Easiest is to be like everyone else.  Trying to fit in when you act and talk like me only makes everyone more aware of how I am not the same.  Blending in isn’t an option for me.  I stand out anyway. ~  Emma Zurcher-Long

Emma’s words, written last night, reminded me of the TED talk Sir Ken Robinson gave eight years ago, in 2006.  A talk that more than 26 MILLION people have watched on the TED channel, more than 6 million on Youtube

“…If you’re not prepared to be wrong, you’ll never come up with anything original.” ~  Sir Ken Robinson

He also said later in this same talk,  “…the consequence is that many highly talented, brilliant, creative people think they’re not, because the thing they were good at at school wasn’t valued, or was actually stigmatized. And I think we can’t afford to go on that way.”

He wasn’t referring to children with a different neurology.  He was referring to the NON autistic population!  Now think about his words in relation to those with a different neurology…  “wasn’t valued, or was actually stigmatized.”  THIS, this is something I think about all the time.  What if… what if we lived in a society that actually valued Autistic neurology?

We need to radically rethink our view of intelligence,” Sir Ken Robinson said.  He also said, “…creativity — which I define as the process of having original ideas that have value — more often than not comes about through the interaction of different disciplinary ways of seeing things.”  An Autistic brain is all about seeing things differently from the majority of the population.  Why are we trying to temper this?  Why do we spend so much time, energy, effort and money on trying to make Autistic people like their NON autistic peers?  Doesn’t this seem like a massive waste of time?  It does to me.  And this isn’t even taking into account the trauma we are inflicting on a group of people who canNOT be like their non autistic peers even if they were motivated to be.  

Sir Ken Robinson goes on to tell a story about a girl who is failing in school.  Her teachers are complaining, she can’t stop fidgeting, she’s doing poorly in all subjects and the mother takes her to a specialist who after listening to all the things the girl is doing wrong, tells the girl he has to speak with her mother privately and together they leave the room, but not before he turns on the radio.  “And when they got out the room, he said to her mother, “Just stand and watch her.” And the minute they left the room, she was on her feet, moving to the music. And they watched for a few minutes and he turned to her mother and said, “Mrs. Lynne, Gillian isn’t sick; she’s a dancer. Take her to a dance school.”

That girl, Gillian went on to graduate from the Royal Ballet School “and founded her own company — the Gillian Lynne Dance Company — met Andrew Lloyd Weber. She’s been responsible for some of the most successful musical theater productions in history.”

I’m not saying all of our kids will become famous dancers, heading up their own companies, but what I AM saying is that it’s time to rethink how we think about autism and our Autistic children who will one day grow up to be Autistic adults.  We can crush them with the insistence they conform, despite all evidence suggesting they cannot or we can encourage them to flourish.  We can insist they communicate like their non autistic peers and subject them to endless hours of therapies created to train them in how to be indistinguishable from their peers.  OR we can find other ways, creative ways to help them be all they can be.

Sir Ken Robinson ends his talk, which I hope you’ll watch if you haven’t already, by talking about the gift of human imagination and using it wisely.  He says, “the only way we’ll do it is by seeing our creative capacities for the richness they are and seeing our children for the hope that they are.”

“Seeing our children for the hope that they are.”

This, it seems to me, is at the crux of everything.  Every single child born, no matter how different they may be from the majority of people, must be approached with this in mind.

“Blending in isn’t an option for me.  I stand out anyway.” ~  Emma Zurcher-Long

Contemplation

Contemplation

“It’s Important That Other Parents Understand.”

Written by Emma Zurcher-Long

“I will talk about the upheaval from last night”

“I toyed with downward feelings of rage then

as bountiful memories seeped into my raging mind

I surrendered to purposeful sleep

my screaming mind is momentarily spared from stormy thoughts

piercing my being

threatening no kindness

patience is ground down til pounding terror is all that remains.

Only the dedicated few

talk about love during episodes of furious pain

their love is rejuvenative and restores faith in this awkward world.”

 

From Ariane:

Emma wrote this after having a very rough night over the weekend.  I asked her if it was okay to post her beautiful words here and she agreed.  I asked because there was a time before we had found a way to support Emma’s outpouring of words, before she was able to write, before we were able to understand, before we understood…  those were the times when nights such as the one she is referring to were even more devastating for all of us and our assumptions about what might be going on were so often wrong.  Emma agreed to post this because, “It’s important that other parents understand.”  The problem with the assumptions we made was that they often led us to then behave accordingly, even without meaning to, they affected how we responded to her.

We might have thought – this is a manipulation, she is doing this to us.  We are being held hostage to her screams.  We would mistake her terror for manipulation.  We might withhold our love in anger.  We might assume that to not do so was giving in or condoning the “behavior”.  We might do any number of things to “show” her that this way of being was unacceptable.  Except that this “way of being” was so beyond the scope of our experiences, so beyond what we could make sense of.

“Pounding terror is all that remains.”

And so I remembered afterward the comments from this post, “What Others Had to Say: Love, Overwhelm, Violence” and all the people who so generously opened up their lives and wrote about their experiences with being overwhelmed and no longer able to cope.  That point when feelings completely take over and all we can do is weather the storm.  Emily K. wrote: “Remove yourself from “their” space but do not leave. Defend yourself but do not leave. Let your child Leave/ escape and do not block his/her path. Follow but do not intrude. Allow space and time do not react but respond in the opposite, we need peaceful and loving parents.”

And Autisticook who wrote:  “It will get better.”

And she also wrote this:  “Teach me how to be upset. Show me there are other ways of being upset, instead of only telling me the way I have chosen is wrong and leaving it at that.”

And this:  “You’re the adult, so I’m depending on you to explain to me what I’m doing and why. I won’t be able to correct you on your assumptions until I’m an adult myself. So please be careful in learning my behaviour and don’t label it until you’re absolutely sure. It’s also OK to ask my input on this when I’m calm and happy.”

And this:  “Allow me a way out. If my self-regulating isn’t allowed, I can guarantee you I will get a meltdown. And once I am in that space, all I can think of is making the thing stop that made me go into meltdown. I only have short term memory and very limited reasoning power when I go into meltdown, so I will latch onto whatever trigger I see in front of me.”

And this:  “I will keep triggering until the world is empty of triggers or until I am utterly exhausted. So if you hold me down, you’re actually keeping me in the world of triggers. I need a different world that is practically triggerless. But I’m too young to know this, which is why I will sometimes keep following you and hitting you even though you try to remove yourself. Because I want the upset feeling to stop and the only way I know how to stop something is to hit it until it stops moving.”

And THIS.  This is SO important:  “Don’t ask me questions.  If you want to know how I’m feeling, please ask me afterwards, when I have calmed down and can find my words again.

And this: “Don’t try to distract me.”

And this:  “Once I’m in my safe space and I know people will no longer ask me questions and I can block out the noises and lights and stim to my heart’s content without someone telling me it’s wrong, I usually calm down within an hour or two.”

And finally, this:  “Please give me time to process.”

I would like to report here that I remembered each and every one of these things and that I put them all into action, but I didn’t.  What I did do was try to remain calm and loving.  And when my calm began to fray, I tried to remove myself, while reminding her of my love.  I did a number of things right, and I made a number of mistakes.   We are all learning here.  When calm was restored Emma said she wanted to write about “the upheaval from last night.”  This was in response to my question, “Is there something in particular you want to talk about this morning or would you prefer we discuss an article from the New York Times?

I was surprised she wanted to talk about it.  And then she wrote those beautiful words, which I can only describe as less prose and more poetry, a song, really.  A song borne of experience, despair, and transformed into a thing of beauty.

The beauty of Emma.

Emma ~ 2012

Emma ~ 2012

 

The Dreaded IEP Meeting

Those annual IEP (Individualized Education Plans) meetings all parents of children with “special needs” attend are something I used to dread.  Meant to ensure our children are given the supports and accommodations they need, I went to our first meeting with eager anticipation.  This was where, I thought, we would be able to work with a team of people all of whom had the same goal for our child – getting and giving her the best supports and accommodations available so that she could flourish.

What quickly became apparent however was that this was when her team would write a series of bullet points describing all that was wrong with her.  All the ways in which she fell short, all the ways she demonstrated how incapable she was, were described in detail, documented and added to her growing file.  This was the time, once a year, when I would sit and listen to that itemization, fighting back my tears.  The few things said during that first IEP meeting that were supposedly positive regarding spoken language, were written as a criticism, “…uses gestures to whine or protest.  She is described as shouting or vocalizing to gain attention.”   I would leave these meetings feeling hopeless and filled with the sort of despair I described in yesterday’s post, Dare to Hope.

Today, almost ten years after that first IEP was written, Emma writes by pointing to letters on a letter board and more recently with both her RPM teacher and me, she is typing on a bluetooth keyboard attached to an iPad.  No one touches her as she writes.  Emma has written before about the words that come out of her mouth.  I will quote her, since the way she describes what happens to her when she speaks is far more descriptive and eloquent than anything I might write.  Emma wrote yesterday in her IEP meeting, “I try to talk, but the words just come out wrong.”  A few months ago she wrote how she wished people would, “listen to my writing voice, but they listen to my talking voice instead.”

As always, I asked Emma if I could write this post about her first IEP, as an example of the assumptions made and how far off we were in our thinking as well as a document for those of you who are at the beginning of all of this.  Emma generously agreed that this was a good idea and wrote, “know that just because a kid doesn’t talk or talks like me, doesn’t mean the words that come out are the same words that are in their mind.”  Regarding her so-called “behaviors” which Emma describes as a body/mind disconnection, she wrote,”I hope to better control my misbehaving body, but sometimes it won’t obey.”

A few weeks ago I asked Emma if she could remember when she was very young.  She wrote, “Yes, my body could not behave because I was not able to cope… too many competing sensations.  I couldn’t make sense of everything that did not connect me with my irritable body.”  Now keeping her words in mind, read these words taken from her IEP, dated 2005 (Emma was three years old):

Emma avoids “looking others in the eye, does not answer when people talk to her, does not get along with other children, seems unresponsive to affection and shows little affection towards people, withdrawn…”

“The skills that she does not show evidence of include:  does not yet engage in make believe play, does not yet match objects, complete interlocking puzzles, repeat digit sequences, identify body parts or show understanding of number concepts.  She does not yet point to body parts, clothing items, prepositional commands, or know size.  She does not participate in story telling or give her full name or use pronouns… and shows limited interest in other children.”

The report goes on to say:

  “She does not vocalize when another person calls her name.  She produces a variety of consonant sounds.”

When I read Emma’s words and the way she describes some of what was going on for her and compare her words to the words written on her IEP, it is impossible not to see the massive disconnect between what was actually going on and what all of us assumed was going on.  It is from those assumptions that her goals were then created.  Goals such as:  “Emma will increase communicative intent via word and/or gesture to consistently request object article/toy/food (8/10) trials.”  “Emma will maintain eye contact and prompt (8/10) trials.” “Emma will use at least 10 objects functionally, 4/5x”  “Emma will imitate 1-2 word utterances during play, 4/5x” the list goes on, but the goals are all either regarding compliance and/or acting according to non autistic standards of behavior using spoken language.

In contrast, yesterday we went to Emma’s IEP meeting with Emma, who contributed her own thoughts and opinions about the goals that were set by writing on the keyboard I held for her.   At one point she wrote, “it’s very good having time to go over goals.”  And when asked about the efficacy of being asked to use a mood chart, she wrote, “Sometimes I feel many things at once.  Would the mood chart work for you?”

Can I just say how proud I am that my daughter asked this question?  And by the way – No, Emma, being asked to chart my moods or anticipate what my mood might be would not work for me.  I think it would actually really piss me off if I was asked, while feeling both upset, sad, frustrated, maybe a little frightened and annoyed  to use one word to describe what I was feeling and then was asked, “What’s wrong?” when I could not rely on spoken language to adequately express myself and no one could support me in the way I needed, so that I could write either.

What was wonderful about yesterday’s IEP meeting was that her staff is dedicated and completely committed to listening to Emma and learning from her what it is that she needs and wants.  Everyone was kind, thoughtful and patient and in the end we have an IEP that reflects our goals for Emma, but more importantly it is a reflection of her goals for herself.

Emma the year before that first IEP

Emma ~ 2004, the year before that first IEP

 

Dare to Hope

Trigger Warning:  Parental despair

Five years ago I was in a bad, bad place.  Life felt unbearable.  The future loomed ahead shrouded in fear.  I could not imagine a life that was not bleak and filled with pain.  There were times when I could not bear the thought of another day.  There were times when I felt it was all too much.  People would make kind suggestions, but none of their words made sense to me.  I was sinking and saw no light.  I thought it was because of my specific circumstances.  I thought it was because I was the parent of a child who, I was told, couldn’t and didn’t understand most of what was said to her.  I was told she couldn’t comprehend this world.  I was told concepts like less and more, time, currency were beyond her ability to grasp.  I was told she was in her own world.  Despite all the years of therapy, there was no hope of her being mainstreamed, she did not make the sorts of leaps forward that other people’s children  had.

I blamed myself, I blamed my husband, I blamed the environment, I blamed my father, I blamed…  There were so many things to blame, but all it did was leave me bereft, empty, and in the middle of the night I would lie awake and cry.  I cried for myself, but I also cried for my child.  I loved my child.  I ached for my child and what seemed to be her inevitable future.  Along with the ache for what might have been, but was not, was the sad, dark, bleak despair that seeped into every aspect of my being.  I had fantasies of “heading north”.  I would smile weakly at my husband and joke, as I gathered my wallet and keys for a quick trip to buy milk at the grocery store, “I may not be back.”  Richard would grin and maybe we would even chuckle, but there was a part of me that wasn’t laughing.  There was a part of me that meant it.  I wanted to leave all that pain behind me.

There are those reading this who will cringe at this description.  There are those who will judge me and what I once felt.  There are those who will point out how self involved all of this sounds.  They will say, but how could you not see that what you were feeling was affecting your child?  There are parents who have children just like mine who never felt what I’ve described, who will not be able to understand or relate, who will read my words and shake their heads in horror.  I understand those responses too, because now, I catch myself feeling those feelings too.

My daughter has defied everyone’s expectations, including ours.  She is writing now.

She is writing such incredible words.  Sometimes a sentence may take her five minutes to construct.  I would cheerfully sit for thirty minutes or however long it takes for her to express herself.  Parents hear about my daughter and they say, “Ah, but my child isn’t like that.”  And so I ask, “How do you know?”  Parents say, “I know my kid.  He/she isn’t able to understand.”  I once believed that too.  And so again I ask, “How do you know?”  Parents say, “I know my child better than anyone.”  I once said this as well.  I thought I knew.  I believed what others told me.  She would laugh and then run full force into a cement wall, using her head as a batting ram.  We would get the dreaded phone calls from her school.  All those doctors, therapists and teachers, all those IEPs where she was described as unable, incapable – “Emma is unable to decipher simple text.”  “She does not know the value of a penny.”   “We will continue to work on sight words.”

Today my daughter is enlightening me.  If you want to know more, read “How We Got Here“.  Just the other day Emma wrote, in response to an incident at school, “You must remember how stressful it is not being able to tell anyone my silent screams of disconnection.”  Her school is now trying to learn RPM so that she can write with them too.

I cried when she wrote that.  I cried because I didn’t know until recently.  I cried for all the years when she had no way of telling us.  I cried for all the times I didn’t believe.  I cried for all the children who are just like her, right now, who cannot tell anyone about their silent screams.  I cried for every single parent who has ever felt the way I once did.  I cried for every single child of those parents and for all the times I heard about a child who was writing to communicate, just as my daughter is now, and how I didn’t believe she would be one of them.  I cried for all the times I heard about an Autistic child or adult and consoled myself by saying, “they are an anomaly.”  I didn’t dare hope that one day my daughter might be writing the things she now writes.  I didn’t dare hope, it hurt too much.

To the parents who feel overwhelmed with fear and despair  – I was once just like you.  Had I found a secret online group of parents feeling and talking the way I once did, I would have joined in an instant.  I’m grateful now that I didn’t find such a group because there’s another way.  I found another way, but not before making many, many more mistakes.  This blog documents a number of the mistakes I’ve made over the years, but not all of them.

If there’s one thing I want to say, it’s please, dare to hope.  Without that we are all lost.

*As always, I asked Emma for her permission to publish this post.

Watch:
Wretches and Jabberers
Mark Utter’s I am in here

Read:
Ido Kedar’s book:  Ido in Autismland
Non-speaking Autistic blogs, many of which can be found on The Resources Page on this blog.

Emma getting ready to write

Emma getting ready to write

Outpouring of Words ~ By Emma Zurcher-Long

Three Haikus By Emma Zurcher-Long for #AutismPositivity2014

*Emma writes by typing on a bluetooth qwerty keyboard attached to her iPad.  For more about the way Emma communicates, read – How we Got Here

Springtime
My writing blossoms
greeting welcoming smiles of
 encouragement gladly.
Springtime

Springtime

Frog
Green with envy you
strain to jump as far and high
daring to come close.
Frog

Frog

Rain
Lashing down, I run
to find shelter but there’s none,
laughter, roaming, I stay.
Rain

Rain

As the parent to a child who has been described as “verbal” but who was thought to be unable to understand much of what was said to her because she could not answer with spoken language questions such as, “How old are you?”  I will never be able to adequately describe what it is like to read my daughter’s words.

This blog began as a document of hope for our daughter, but it has evolved to become a message of hope to parents who feel the kind of despair and terror I once did.   As Emma wrote, “I am smarter than most people think.  So many kids are just like me.”

This post is dedicated to the Autism Positivity Flashblog going on all day today.

If you would like to submit to the flashblog, here is the submission form.

Autism and Eugenics

As shocked as I was that Emma brought up the topic of eugenics, it also seemed completely “expected” in the sense that Emma has frequently written about similar issues regarding parenting and autism. In many of her previous writings on the subject, Emma has sought to ease the fears of parents after their children are diagnosed with autism. With this conversation, it becomes more clear as to why she feels so highly motivated to show parents that an autistic mind is a wonderful mind and the prospect of having an autistic child could just as easily be looked upon as a “blessing” rather than a “curse.”

It is literally a matter of life and death.

I have no doubt whatsoever that tests will be created that can determine (with at least a reasonable amount of certainty) whether an embryo will develop autistic (or autistic-like) neurology. Having just returned from a weeklong conference on neurology and consciousness studies, where I listened to over 100 lectures by the top scientists in the field, I also have no doubt whatsoever that such a test will likely be developed within the next five years. The technological advances in this area are occurring at such an exponentially swift rate that it would be ten times more shocking if the “autism test” were NOT developed.

I have equal certainty that once a test like this is developed (particularly if it is a non-invasive blood test, which is also highly likely) that the results will be horrifyingly similar to what has occurred when fetuses test positive for Down Syndrome (DS) — a 90% abortion rate.

If you’ve ever spent a decent amount of time with a person with Down Syndrome, and you’re a reasonably intelligent, kind and compassionate person, you fully understand what a horrific disaster this is. When the “autism-test” becomes available–and it will–an equal disaster will likely occur, if we don’t effectively get the word out that autism is not to be feared, but should instead be embraced.

Here is a good article I just found on the topic and points the way to a more organized manner to produce and publicize an awareness campaign to counter the eugenics tragedy, in the absence of a more positive attitude toward autism and autistic people.

Very unfortunately, we live in an increasingly perfectionist society, particularly in America. Any American woman knows how difficult life became for her as a little girl, once she became aware of what society deemed: “the ideal woman.” Now little boys have to push the same boulder up the same hill, trying to get a stud-muffin six-pack hot-bod. Just look at the cover of any magazine that features any human being that is not part of a straight-news story.

It’s hard to be optimistic about the outcome regarding eugenics. People, being people, want the “best for their children.” And the “best” that’s being shoved down people’s throats is an impossible ideal. So wanting the “best for their children” often translates into wanting the “best children.” Depending on your cultural affiliation, the “best children” might mean tall, slim, blond hair and blue eyes. Or it might be highly intelligent, hard-working, caring, athletic, wealthy, powerful, dominant, sexy, persuasive, cunning or ruthless.

Perhaps all those traits will become “genetically selectable.” Will parents do it? Absolutely. How many? Lots. Will laws be imposed to stop them? Perhaps. Will those laws be broken? Absolutely. The big questions aren’t: “if” or “should you?” They are: “when” and “how much?” And with Autism Speaks sucking up 80% of the public discourse bandwidth, the generally accepted definition of “best children” continues to be: “children who are not-autistic.”

It’s hard to be optimistic about anything anymore. Like whether your children will ever see a living coral reef. But if you care, you have to try, and we really have to try very hard, and very quickly if there is any chance at all of turning the tide.

Emma’s Hope Book began as a search for “hope” in “helping” Emma to be a less-autistic person. It’s shameful for me to write that, but it’s the truth. Thanks to Ariane’s tireless quest to learn more about autism, she discovered the blogs of autistic people and suddenly our perspective shifted completely. Now Emma’s Hope Book is about hope with a capital H, not in air-quotes. It’s about the Hope of understanding and acceptance and respect and basic human rights. It’s about the Hope of reaching parents with children who are newly diagnosed with the “disease” or “disorder” of autism and suggesting an alternative perspective, so they may embrace and treasure the gift they’ve been given–and prevent the countless trauma-inflicting mistakes we made while we listened to the “Cure Autism Now!’ crew. It’s about the Hope of reaching the parents of autistic children who have already made many of the mistakes we’ve made and show them the power and beauty and wonder and joy of true acceptance–of learning that it is never too late to change–of learning that every day and every moment of every day counts.

Most importantly, Emma’s Hope Book is about the Hope of changing the world one person at a time through the kindness, compassion, joy, creativity, intelligence, insight and wisdom of Emma and all the autistic people like her (and unlike her) who share their thoughts, feelings, fears and hope with anyone who is willing to open their minds and listen:

“Know our understanding of what’s ideal constantly changes. Ideally one understands: to want a child is a desire without promise for sameness.” — Emma Zurcher-Long

Image

Having THE Conversation & Parenting

Emma not only gave me permission to write about this, but asked that I “put it on the blog.”  I posted a small portion of this conversation on Emma’s Hope Book Facebook Page yesterday.

Trigger warning:  eugenics, abortion

Yesterday morning I saw an article in National Geographic about the Seine and Paris that I thought Emma might enjoy reading, particularly since her grandfather, my father, was born and raised in Paris.  But as with any topic I choose I asked Emma if it was something she was interested in.

Ever the diplomat, Emma wrote, “I do want to talk about the Seine, just not now.”

“Okay,” I said, “what would you like to talk about instead?”

“I want to have the conversation about eugenics,” Emma wrote.

I was astonished.  After I’d recovered from my astonishment I thought of how I continually talk about presuming competence and yet am so often surprised by my daughter’s words.  I’ve come to the conclusion that one does not preclude the other.  I can presume competence and still be surprised by the things she knows and says.  In fact, if I asked a group of twelve-year olds to talk to me about eugenics, I’m guessing there would be several who would not be familiar with the word, let alone able to spell it correctly.

“What specifically are you wanting to say or know?” I asked.

Emma wrote, “What do you believe is right?”

I said, “I don’t believe eugenics is ever a good idea, because it is a desire to extinguish those believed to be lesser beings.  I think all human beings are valuable and should be treated with respect and equally.”  As I spoke I held the keyboard for her to respond if she wanted to.

Emma wrote, “I believe human life is sacred and people treat those who they think are different far worse than people who are like them.”

“Yes, I think you’re right,” I said.  “Do you worry about eugenics?”

“Yes,” Emma wrote, “because parents seem so upset when they find out their kid is autistic.  I worry that people like me will end up being aborted.”

Eugenics and abortion…  Now two topics I was completely unprepared to talk about.  So we discussed both.  I talked to Emma about prenatal testing and how such a test has not been made yet.  I explained that autism has not been found in one particular gene, but that researchers are finding whole clusters of genes suggesting that it will be very difficult to isolate one or even a group of genes that may or may not be related to autism.  We discussed abortion and how and why it is a complicated topic.  And we talked about the difference between abortion and eugenics and how the two can overlap, but that they are also not necessarily related.

As with any complex issue, this is where parenting can get tricky.  I asked myself, how much information is too much?  I do not want to be overly protective and try to shield either of my children from difficult topics, nor do I want to “feed” my children my opinions.  Instead I want them to have enough information so they can form their own opinions, even if they develop opinions I do not agree with.  I’d rather disagree and talk about that than have them believe something without thinking about it.

I told Emma that her concerns were one of the reasons I feel so compelled to continue writing and why I hope she will also continue to write so that “more people get to know someone like me.”  We discussed how people’s perceptions about autism and how the things we see and are told, all that inaccurate information, can cause people to do things they would not do if they were given a more balanced and informed view.

Emma then wrote, “…I will write about this more so other parents open their hearts and learn…”

Now I realize I am bringing up difficult and complex topics.  Topics many people have strong opinions about.  I’m actually not interested in getting into an ideological argument about abortion and a woman’s right to choose, however I am interested in discussing the ramifications of the current and ongoing conversation regarding autism.

Eugenics was not a topic I would have ever thought to bring up with my daughter.  Not only was it not something I’d thought to discuss, it is a word I did not assume she knew.  But, just as when she wrote to Soma a few months back that she had seen the Grammy’s, unbeknownst to me, my daughter hears everything that is said around her.   Emma wrote that she saw the Grammy’s while waiting in the airport.  I hadn’t even noticed they were being shown because I don’t pay attention to the television screens when we are in an airport, so busy am I with getting through security and finding our gate.

I am so grateful Emma is able to write about these things so that we can discuss her concerns.  How many people who are Autistic worry about being harmed or even killed because of their neurology?  How many are able to voice their concerns?  How many are worrying in silence?

Emma - April 2014

Emma – April 2014

Autism Graphics

In the last two days I have been sent two different graphics supposedly about autism, but that upon reading take my breath away because of their blatant inaccuracies and biases.   The last one was in the shape of a pyramid in a shade of blue I’ve come to despise with the heading, “Impairment in Imagination” and I just wanted to cry.  Impairment in imagination?

You have no idea how much I wanted to hit the delete button and scream or bite someone, which always reminds me of a scene in the British comedy, Shawn of the Dead where the main character’s mom is bitten by a zombie, but she doesn’t say anything until her son asks, “Mom, are you okay?  Did he get you?”  And the mother smiles weakly, as blood gushes from her arm and replies, “Well, he was a bit bitey.”  Hilarious.  Only what I was feeling when I read “Impairment of imagination” was not hilarious.  No.  Not at all.

Underneath that unfortunate heading was written, “Deficits in flexible thinking regarding interests, routines, perspectives and rules.”  Two key words are used in these first two sentences “Impairment” in the heading and “deficit” in the second.  The first is just incorrect and the second is a stereotype that while it may be true for some people it certainly cannot be stated as fact for ALL people.  I purposely did not say “Autistic” people because rigidity and a reluctance to see another’s point of view are things many human beings have trouble with and this is not something that can be pinned on one specific neurology.

Below this, the graphic reads, “does not understand other people’s points of view or feelings.”  Again I could list a number of non autistic people in the news who would certainly be terrific examples of this sentence.  To suggest that this is a defining characteristic of Autism is inaccurate and plays into the whole “lacking empathy myth” that so many believe as fact about Autistic people.  Please read Drs Kamila and Henry Markram’s Intense World Theory of Autism for another thought regarding autism.  And by the way, the Markram’s, both of whom are neuroscientists, call it a “theory” because they understand that it is not scientifically proven fact, but a theory they developed and continue to tweak as they learn more.  They are highly regarded, acclaimed, well published and the two people working in the field of autism whose work I believe will eventually change how autism is viewed.

The next line of text on the graphic reads, “Agitated by changes in routine.”  This line would actually be fine if it weren’t for all that precedes it.  But I would also suggest that this line could be said about all young children.  And in the end this is my criticism of the information that is being given to people about autism.  Autism as defined by a list of deficits that added up does little other than to create panic in parents of Autistic children.  I’ve written about this before ‘here‘, ‘here‘ and ‘here.’   These posts are just a few examples of things I’ve written describing what fear did to me and why terror does not motivate people to make good decisions or help them decide how they can best support and encourage their children to be all they can be.

This particular graphic goes on with headings of:  “Impairment in Social Relationships,” “Impairment in Social Communication” and at the base of the pyramid the heading says:  “Additional Difficulties” where they list, among other things, “Appears to enjoy being held/restrained…”  NO!  This is absolutely wrong.  You cannot write that someone “appears” to “enjoy” “being restrained” thereby justifying sadistic behavior done by staff/therapists/parents/ANYONE.  And again, I  want to SCREAM!  Who is writing something like this?  This is a graphic that is being used by a school for Autistic children.  It is a graphic that is stating things as though proven fact.  A graphic that parents, children, educators are seeing.

We have to ask ourselves – WHAT ARE WE DOING?  How is it okay to publish such statements as though they are fact about a neurology that the best neuroscientists in the world are baffled by?

Please.  If you are confronted with a graphic that is anything like what I’ve just described, do NOT share it.  Do NOT believe that these things are a fact, just because they are written as though they are.  Do not add to the misinformation by repeating it.  DO NOT.  It is statements like this, one page info graphics written by non autistic people, who are not neuroscientists, who seem to know very little about autism that cause tremendous damage to the Autistic population.

We must all become critical thinkers when it comes to information about autism. We know very little about the human brain.  The best and smartest neuroscientists in the world are working hard to gain a better understanding. Most of what we are being told are theories, please let’s not treat these as fact.

Emma ~ 2010

Emma ~ 2010

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FC and RPM

Both facilitated communication (FC) and Rapid Prompting Method (RPM) while different in practice, are based in a presumption of competence and both are often a bridge to the ideal goal of independent communication.  There are those who may not be able to achieve full independence because of physical challenges. It bears repeating, however that the eventual goal for all who are physically able to, is independence.  And yet both methods are criticized.  In fact, no matter what the initial method used to learn to type by non-speaking, Autistic people who have gone on to type independently, people like Carly Fleischmann, Tito Mukhopadhyay, Sue Rubin, Jamie Burke, Ido Kedar and so many others, there are those who continue to question the authorship of their words.  Even though no one touches them as they type.  Even though there is no physical contact of any kind as they write.  Even though they all talk about the issues they must contend with on a daily basis, things that are specific to them and the challenges they face with a mind and body that are often not in sync.

In the case of FC there are a number of people, now independent, who began typing to communicate, but for physical reasons need the help of another person to provide resistance or to help with physical challenges.  As with Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA) where a child is given hand over hand prompts that are hoped to be eventually faded, so it is with FC.  However FC is continually attacked for using, often less, physical prompts than ABA practitioners use.  Some people like Barb Rentenbach, Peyton Goddard, Jennifer Seybert and Tracy Thresher are now typing with a finger placed on their shoulder or the middle of their back.  If one goes back to how they began to type, this shows enormous progress.  All of them are intent on becoming fully independent and work extremely hard in trying to reach this goal.  Yet, it is interesting to note that few people object or question ABA’s use of hand over hand prompts.   What is good for one, seems to not be good for all. Why is that?

Carly Fleischmann who types independently wrote, “I don’t have a hand up my butt like a puppet…”  Despite her words, if you google “Carly Fleischmann” the second search term that comes up after “Carly Fleischmann blog” is “Carly Fleischmann fake”.  Oddly, when entering “Stephen Hawking” into google, the search terms are “Stephen Hawking quotes” and “Stephen Hawking black holes”.  Why is it that Carly Fleischmann, who types independently, is viewed with suspicion, while Stephen Hawking is not?

RPM, the method created by Soma Mukhopadhyay, does not use physical prompts at all.  No one touches the person writing, but instead a stencil board is held in front of the person writing.  The stencil letter board, it is hoped, will be eventually faded and replaced with a laminated letter board with the goal, in my daughter’s case, being able to move to a qwerty keyboard, which is how Emma now communicates with me as well as with the person she has weekly RPM sessions with.  Still, there are those who insist that no matter how steady the letter board is held, the person holding it is manipulating it ever so slightly and enough to influence the person writing.  Or, as is the case with Carly and others who type independently, it doesn’t matter, the fact that they are not able to speak seems to be all people need to discount their words, no matter how they communicate.  All of this would be laughable if it were not for the tragic fact that people’s voices are being discredited and silenced.

My friend Kerima Cevik, of the blog The Autism Wars, recently wrote “My Standing Position of Facilitated Communication” and posted it on Facebook.  It immediately went viral and brings up a number of excellent points consistently ignored by those who seek to discredit FC.  Please read it.  I find it incredible that people, almost all of them psychologists, just as Bruno Bettelheim claimed to be (and not neuroscientists) continue to come up with all kinds of theories regarding any number of things involving autism and Autistic people, things like Theory of Mind and Cognitive Empathy.  All of these are “theories” and not scientifically proven as fact, yet they are treated as fact, while things like RPM and FC are ridiculed for not being scientifically proven and dismissed, while other methods like ABA are applauded, funded and given a golden seal of approval.   One more question to consider, why is it that people who are aphasic are not immediately given ABA?  No one recommends ABA as a therapy for someone who has had a stroke and as a result cannot speak.

I urge all of you to consider, regardless of what other people decide they believe, if a child cannot communicate through spoken language what are their options?  Whatever the approach is, whether it uses pictures, hand gestures, eye movement, pointing, or some other form of communication I have a series of questions I ask.

Does this approach presume competence?

Would I use this system for a non-autistic person who cannot speak?

Does it infantilize?

Is this way of communicating limiting or is it a bridge to more complex communication?

Emma types on a qwerty keyboard

Emma types on a qwerty keyboard

 

“Picky Eater”

“Picky eater.”  This is how Emma has described herself and gave me permission to quote.  Food and eating in relationship to my daughter are topics I have (in the last year and a half) avoided on this blog  for a variety of reasons, but the biggest being, because I spent twenty-two years of my life in the throes of an eating disorder documented ‘here‘ and ‘here‘ and so have very conflicted opinions about all of this.  I have no problem discussing my own issues regarding food, but I don’t have that leeway when talking about my daughter’s relationship to food.  It’s not my story to tell, it’s hers.

So this post will not be about her interactions with food as much as it will concentrate on my own as the parent of a “picky eater.”  Despite my better instincts, I became way too involved in my daughter’s food, what she ate, what she didn’t.  I made the mistake of believing there was a link between her inability to speak and what she was or wasn’t eating and that concern overrode my gut feeling that I needed to stay out of it…  twice.  As a result, this happened.  The first time I “managed” her food intake was when she was just two years old, despite all the medical tests showing she had no intolerances or allergies to anything.  The second time was far worse and more traumatic and it was because of those six weeks, when she stopped eating, lost a tremendous amount of weight, that I realized I had to stop trying to control what she did or didn’t eat.  Please remember I am writing this from the perspective of someone who has huge personal issues with food.  This is important.

I have heard from a number of people who have found from various tests done by their doctors or through their own experimentation that they feel better if they stay away from particular foods, others have been diagnosed as celiac or have specific food intolerances and allergies that when avoided has changed their lives significantly.  This is true for all people and not just a specific neurology, though it may prove to be more prevalent in Autistic neurology, or it may be that Autistic neurology makes some experience the discomfort they feel more intensely. Either way, it is absolutely a fact that some people are allergic or have an intolerance to some foods.

When I first put my daughter on a gluten-free/ casein free diet I was filled with trepidation because of my history as both bulimic and anorexic.  I worried about the unforeseen consequences of controlling her food choices, particularly as my eating disorder had nearly fatal consequences.  When I gave birth to my daughter I was so relieved when she ate just about anything offered.  As time went on and she began to narrow what she would and wouldn’t eat I became concerned, but wary of becoming too involved.  I was hyper aware of offering healthy foods to my children, while not becoming overly controlling.  So far so good.  And then Emma was diagnosed with autism and in my research I read about the GF/CF diet.  In the literature I read there were spectacular claims of “recovery” from autism and “losing their diagnosis.”  This was in 2004.  I was in the midst of my find-anything-that-will-cure-her- thinking.  I don’t know if that diet is pushed on parents now the way it was then.  But at the time it seemed many parents were implementing it, some with noticeable positive changes, but most were not, still, it seemed worth a try.

Like everything to do with autism, there are opinions, lots of opinions, but little real evidence that a diet was having the same massive effect on all children diagnosed with autism as it was on a few.  So when the diet did nothing, and despite the battery of tests showing no intolerance of any kind, in a moment of desperation I implemented an even more draconian version of this diet in 2011 as advised by a naturopath I took her to.  It was this final attempt that caused long-term and far-reaching damage.  It eroded her trust and it caused her a great deal of unnecessary pain and trauma.  It is this time period that Emma still refers to with great anxiety today.  As someone who almost died because of my eating disorder it is tough to reconcile the fact that I have caused my daughter such suffering.

I bring all of this up because over the weekend, Emma said she was willing to “taste a carrot.”  This was huge.  HUGE, as Emma has not willingly eaten a vegetable of any kind since 2005.  I have consoled myself over the years by reminding myself that there are populations throughout the world who subsist on an extremely limited diet.  There are indigenous people in Northwestern Alaska who live on seal and walrus blubber and little else, but whose health is actually better than their southern neighbors.  Various people over the years, particularly OT’s and speech therapists have tried to convince me to restrict Emma’s diet, but I won’t do it. Instead we discuss nutrition.  We talk about food choices.  I do my best to model good eating habits.  We talk about vitamin supplements and I offer healthy choices.

When I asked Emma, “So what did you think about that carrot you just tried?”  Emma wrote, “I think it’s sweeter than I expected.  So not as bad as I had anticipated.”

“Do you think you will try it again?” I asked.

“Yes, I will taste it and thank you for your suggestion,” Emma ever so politely wrote.

November, 2011

Having lost more than 10 pounds – November, 2011

A Living Amends & the Ripple Effect

Last night I was on Marc Rosen, Nick Hale and James P. Wagner’s blog talk radio show Human Potential.  You can listen to the show by clicking on the link provided.  The show focused on “The Importance of Allies.”  I was really honored to have been asked on the show, particularly given my past and the things I once believed about autism and my daughter.  I certainly did not begin this journey as an ally and so I am filled with a great deal of gratitude when told there are those who think of me as one now.

One of the things I forgot to mention last night as we talked, was this idea I’ve had ever since that day when I found Julia Bascom’s blog, Just Stimming, and specifically her post “The Obsessive Joy of Autism.”  It’s an idea I’ve tried hard to put into practice these past few years. The idea is that because I made so many really awful decisions about my daughter, I needed to make a “living amends” to her.

The idea of a living amends is that as long as I am alive the only true amends I can make that will have any lasting impact, that has any chance at countering at least some of the bad choices I made, is to do everything in my power now to live my life differently.  A living amends is different from an apology no matter how heartfelt that apology may be.  It is an ongoing commitment to change, to be open, to be willing, to have humility, to learn, and to behave differently as a result of this new-found awareness and commitment.  This is what I promised myself and my daughter just over two years ago when Julia’s blog opened my eyes to a different way of viewing my daughter’s neurology.

Since then I’ve had time to contemplate all of this and believe my role as Emma’s parent is to support her, encourage her, cheer her on and do everything in my power to make sure she feels empowered and supported to be all that she can be.  I do not ever want either of my children to be who they think I want them to be, or who anyone wants them to be, for that matter.  My job is to help them figure out who they want to be and then give them the support to help them be that person.

It is also this thinking that continues to drive me to do all I can to change how the world views autism.  I don’t mean that to sound as egotistical as some might take it. I do not expect, nor do I believe I have the power to change the world’s view, but I do believe each one of us can and does make change happen one person at a time.  There is a ripple effect that then occurs and that ripple effect repeated many times over does have the power to change what no single one of us can.  There is a saying – together we can do what neither one of us can do alone.  Or as Helen Keller is quoted as saying, “Alone we can do so little, together we can do so much.”

Julia Bascom’s blog is a perfect example of this.  How many, like me, were radically changed as a result of her words?  How many people then took her words and began to live their life differently?  How many then altered the lives of their children because they now presumed them competent?  How many?  I’m guessing the answer is more than just a few…  that’s the ripple effect in action!

Em & Ariane on New Year's Eve ~ 2013

Em & Ariane on New Year’s Eve ~ 2013

The Power Of Understanding

I’m honored to be a guest on Human Potential‘s blog talk radio show, The Importance of Allies With Ariane Zurcher, airing tonight at 9pm EDT.

If you have not viewed the two youtube videos of Ari Ne’eman’s speech and Emma’s, where she writes a message to parents about autism, I hope you’ll take the time to do so now.  Please feel free to share widely.

As both kids are on spring break this week, I asked them whether they wanted to have a “sibling chat”.  Both agreed.  What has occurred as a result is nothing short of incredible.  Understandings have been forged, exchanges of ideas and beliefs have been made.  They have listened to each other, asked questions, shown patience and tremendous compassion for one another and in the end grown closer…  Many people take these types of conversations for granted.  But we do not.

Listening and learning…

Nic & Em

The YouTube Video of Ari Ne’eman and Emma Zurcher-Long

My fabulous husband, Richard Long, has edited the videos of Ari’ Ne’eman’s and Emma Zurcher-Long’s presentation April 2nd at CoNGO (The Conference of Non-Governmental Organizations in Consultative Relationship with the United Nations).   

As Richard edited Ari’s terrific speech, Emma was in the room looking at the iPhoto library I keep on my computer, which is near the computer Richard was editing on.  At one point Ari describes the Autism Speaks video when a mother describes (in front of her non-speaking autistic daughter, who attempts to hug her mother several times as she talks) how she thought about driving off the George Washington Bridge with her autistic daughter strapped into the back seat, but doesn’t, for the sake of her other child who is not autistic.  As Richard had taken a still shot of Ari just at that moment, he needed to edit out the pause that was caused by the still shot and so had to repeat this portion of the video over and over and over.

Emma and I have discussed this video before and though I’ve not shown it to her I wondered whether she was ever in the room when either Richard or I watched it. By  the fourth edit of that particular section, I looked over at my daughter who showed no outward sign of upset and whispered, “Emmy, is this upsetting you?”  (I know, talk about asking the obvious…)

I am painfully aware that  by writing about this I open myself up to all kinds of judgement and criticism, but I believe my insensitivity and slow response is an excellent example of the general malaise society has regarding messages like this one that Ari discusses and that are so cavalierly displayed with regularity not only by Autism Speaks, but a great many organizations and autism experts, which are then repeated in the media.  If none of us are able to admit ignorance and our less than ideal reactions, but only point fingers at others, there will be no conversation and little will change.  So I’m willing to reluctantly admit that it took having that section on repeat before it occurred to me to get my intensely sensitive daughter out of the room to discuss the Autism Speaks video in more detail.

This idea that our children and people (of all neurologies) hear these things, but because those who cannot communicate through spoken language are therefore thought to not be able to understand what is being said, is one of the more destructive assumptions made.  And what about those who do speak, are their feelings not important?  These kinds of messages, stated both publicly and privately without thought of the impact this has, encourages prejudice and intolerance, focuses on the suffering, not of the child, but of the parent because of the child, only fuels anger and fear.  Meanwhile Autistic people’s feelings are ignored, their response and reactions to such messages are considered, if at all, of little importance.

“Come Emma, let’s go in the other room.”  I suggested.  Once outside I asked Emma if she wanted to discuss the video Ari was referring to.  Emma wrote, “The video has a mom who is lost and cannot rationalize hope.”  Then a little later Emma wrote, “Autistic people are not viewed as able beings, this view makes us suffer.”  Read that again –

“Autistic people are not viewed as able beings, this view makes us suffer.”

After Ari’s terrific talk, Emma and I were introduced.  Watch Emma writing her final sentence regarding autism and acceptance, which says it all…

“Self-Knowledge Avails Us Nothing”

There are things I forget to talk about with my daughter.  Things that someone will mention or I’m reminded of in some other context and suddenly I’ll think – Gosh, why haven’t I discussed this with her?  These are things a parent would typically talk to their child about, but that because my daughter cannot easily communicate her thoughts I, without meaning to, do not immediately think to talk about with her.  This is the impact my limiting ideas about language and not being able to communicate through spoken language have on my daughter.  It doesn’t always occur to me to discuss with her a great many things until I am reminded.   Out of respect for my daughter I am keeping this post purposefully vague.

I am moving along here, learning as I go and continue to make a great many mistakes.  I have never deluded myself into believing the – making mistakes – part will end, the most I can hope for is that I won’t continue to make the same mistakes, but even so, I do.  I seem to need to repeat the same lesson many times before I am able to make lasting change.  It is a mistake to believe non Autistic neurology does not have trouble with transitions, generalizing information, learning something taught and immediately changing behavior to demonstrate this knowledge.  I will often know something, yet it will take many attempts before I am able to put that knowledge into practice.  You could say that my actions lag way behind what I know or believe.

In the 12 step rooms there is a saying – “self-knowledge avails us nothing.”  What is meant by this is that we can intellectually know something and yet that knowledge does not produce a change in the way we behave.  The only way to change is by doing something differently.  How easy that sounds and yet, look around, people have struggled with this since the beginning of mankind.  Addiction is the obvious example, but there are other, far more subtle things that are great examples of how we want to do something – eat better, exercise, be polite, more friendly, etc –  we know it would be better if we did whatever it was, only to find ourselves unable to do it.  Behavior modification, were it as helpful as many seem to believe, should have helped anyone who has ever attempted to “just stop” and yet it has shown itself as useless.  Unless behavior modification is used in its most extreme form, which I would argue is not dissimilar to torture, in which case it will and does produce short-term change, though at a terrible cost to the person being “treated”, it does not help those of us who are trying hard to change our less than ideal ways of coping with discomfort, fear, pain, and suffering.

Change is hard.  Changing the way we act is even harder than changing a belief.  Yet, we expect and ask children to change all the time.  We tell them something and then when they do exactly what we’ve asked them not to do, we wonder why.  Except that they are behaving the way most of us behave.  Adults are no exception to this.  Now add a neurology that makes communicating more complicated and all kinds of misunderstandings develop.  Conclusions are drawn, ideas and theories are created to explain, and yet…

Recently Emma was asked about something that happened at school.  She wrote, “if every time you tried to speak, the wrong things came out of your mouth, how would you feel?”  We live in a society where people knowingly say and do hurtful things all the time, yet those people are not put in institutions, given random medications against their will, labeled as “low functioning, ostracized, given electric shocks, condemned and treated as though they were criminals.  I’m thinking of a number of radio and talk show hosts whose ratings soar the more outrageous and venomous they are.  These people are rewarded for such behavior!  I’ve never met a parent who said, “I want my child to grow up to be rude, disrespectful and a bigot.”  And yet…

Today I will suggest a few topics and ask both my children what they’d like to discuss.

Em & N. ~ 2010

Em & N. ~ 2010